Urban vinyl

[Lobsterman]

triskela said:

There must be a bunch of hype in there somewhere because some short run toys are only like $15 for a toy with several moving parts. I think Urban Vinyl is a new way to separate suckers from their cash.

But take Kozik's "Smoking Hate Pink Dunny *8-inch*" for $30. I don't think Kozik did much more than produce a drawing for a company that then sculpted and had the thing cast. And I don't know about anyone else, but the novelty of cute animal and cartoon characters doing unlikely things (smoking, stripping, weilding weapons, covered in blood) has long ago worn off for me. Throwing in pop culture motifs (hot rod flames, eightballs, rap and lounge culture icons, syringes, political overtones, etc) just makes me feel even more manipulated. And the main objection is cost - because there is a pretense that these are "objets d'arte" - when I know these are in reality $3 novelty toys. Good only for a quick smirk, like most of the crap available at Spenser's or Hot Topic.

Triskela brought this point up in an unrelated post, so I thought I'd move it over here. The marketing guy from Jazwares (maker of the crappy Megaman figures I bagged on in anotehr post) did this interview with Figures.com. Thought you'd like to know there are people in the industry who feel the same way as you, Trisk...

www.figures.com/databases/action.cgi?setup_file=ttnews2.setup&category=urban&topic=42&show_article=1

Anyone else have an opinion? I personally think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in the urban vinyl market. True, I can't justify spending $200 on a plastic gorilla with some turntables, but I do like the artistry behind it. I disagree with the notion that most of the genre is "good for a quick smirk" crap. A lot of the stuff I've seen is interesting and well-conceived, and I giving artists total control of the design process, as urban vinyl tends to do, leads to some very good work.

[Randy13]

I can greatly appreciate the talent of designers like Tim Biskup or Seonna Hong--but I've never much enjoyed very expensive toys with very limited runs. It's not the hunting and collecting that intrigues me about toys, it's the owning.

Now, if your average designer vinyl were made in the USA by people being paid a decent living wage, I'd bite--but it seems that these things roll off the same production lines of underpaid chinese like most other toys--not good if you consider art a political medium of any consequence. I've gotten my g-friend some Biskup postcards, a t-shirt, and some of those little stackable monsters, but I would balk at the more trendy, exploitative stuff--the gorilla dj you mentioned, for example.

I would like to see these designers doing more neat functional design--I saw a working speaker a while back that looked like a kid in a hoodie with a speaker for a face--cool! And while I appreciate the toughness and versatility of vinyl, the obvious profit margin, which can approach that of a movie theater soda pop, keeps me away...


EDIT: I might add, for comparison's sake, that I do collect Japanese monster vinyls. These are the same material and paint job as your average urban, and often produced in similarly small numbers. Like designer figs, the price on these puppies can inflate to mythical levels over time--many hundreds of dollars for the harder to get figs. There are two main differences between the two stlyes--one, the monster figures lake an artist's name, and instead have the name of a powerful liscence (godzilla, ultraman, what have you). Two, the monster figures usually hit retail at slightly less-say, between ten and forty dollars per toy, depending on it's size. Still expensive, although cheaper than many art vinyls. This would be a good ballpark range for the designer guys to aspire to. Sell more toys for less money--everyone's happy.

[triskela]

Lobsterman:

My main point there in the other thread was about cost. I don't believe the costs are justified per unit. I have a ballpark figure of $1,500 for 500 figures I play with. This hypothetical figure doesn't do much. Let's say it has a head (with a gas mask), a torso, 2 arms, and 2 legs. The pieces all rotate at each join. Now I try and sell the thing for $50 retail a pop because I have low volume and its an art object. Let's say I make only $20 per unit because I am not the retailer, I am the manufacturer. Now I am not saying there isn't work in these toys, but somebody just made $1,500 into $10,000. You could charge far less and still double or triple your money.

And part of the price issue has to do with what the toy actually does for one. Most of the Urban Vinyl toys just sit there.

BTW, I actually like a lot of the toys I see - but they have very limited play value. You are as often as not buying the vinyl figure just to display it somewhere. Someone else raised the issue of the longevity of the vinyl over time, exposed to the environment, light, and heat. In ten years time these toys might not be worth much simply because of deterioration - unsuited for display or a return on the "art investment."

Now compare these limited use and appeal toys to something like Xevoz and the value just isn't there. Now one of the things I like about Xevoz is the non-licensed nature of the characters. They are generics of a kind, utilizing similar pop motifs as the foofy designer urban vinyl set. Hey we got your flaming eyeballs, protective gear, tiki heads, vampires, angels, and badass wheels right here in Xevoz. And Xevoz were toys with multiple pieces per set, great poseability, huge playability, etc.

Urban Vinyl I can take or leave for the price. There's maybe ONE Urban Vinyl figure I might get sometime.

[Xaolin]

Yeah I love me some urban vinyl toys, or any of the more independent toys, I drool at kidrobot.com every once in a while, but I can't bring myself to pay those prices.
I almost paid $400 for a Brothersrobber doll, but then came to my senses.